All this talk about moving the tablets to a Canola-like interface is depressing. My favorite tech item might as well be dead and gone now.
1 year, 7 months ago.
14 comments so far
Has someone from Nokia said something to indicate maemo would head in Canola's direction? I've only seen users talk that way. The Qt-on-maemo news items that have come out recently certainly seem to express commitment to GTK+ and evolving the existing interface design. One of the items even seemed to make reference to Canola as a separate, non-standard UI.
I think manufacturers want to define more clearly their products. Back in the days our tablets were the only affordable ultra portable linux "computer" or something like that. Bigger than a phone, smaller than those nice Vaios. Now, at chrismas 08, our segment will be very loaded with dozen of devices, and more importantly: splitted. Ultra portables computers, powered by linux, with the laptop-style keyboard will be availlable in 7"-12" screen sizes for about the same price of an N810. I think tablets are bound to have an "faster to use" interface with big buttons and enhanced media capabilities, to be like "bigger iPods".
@sjgadsby No, no one from Nokia has, but when you have ThoughtFix and stuff like the Internet Tablet School pushing for that kind of interface and no one against it on Planet Maemo, Nokia then thinks it knows what the customers want.... so don't be surprised to see your tablet start thinking you can't be trusted with menus.
Hey, Nokia follows all those blogs and many more sources. Plus there are Nokia designers and UI engineers with opinions, there are user studies, competitors analysis and whatnot.
It's ok to get frustrated about things you see, but as a friend I recommend you not to get frustrated about things you haven't seen nor heard from the source you are worried about. ;)
Yes, there is a big leap from Canola guys doing nice work and appreciating that work to actually even considering about "moving the tablet interface to resemble Canola".
And I think that having the best of both worlds is possible: if you could somewhat link an hardware key to a "start media player" action or an "switch mode" to make the use of the tablet as an media player even more easy.
@thebrave I don't like the idea of adding more hardware buttons to the tablets. I've read many posts on ITT expressing wishes for dual D-pads, scroll wheels, and additional dedicated or programmable buttons, but I'm unconvinced of the need. If anything, I lean toward reducing the number of hardware buttons, but I don't expect that view is shared by many who use, or create, the tablets.
As for a general use/media player "mode switch", that's the most fundamental problem I have with Canola. The unadvertised "-n" switch aside, it takes over the entire display, making it cumbersome to switch applications and access the status bar controls. It even places one of its primary on-screen controls directly in the notification area for new mail and instant messages, seemingly implying those other, lesser things should have been disabled beforehand. The entire Canola UI seems more designed for a single-tasking device with two hardware buttons and a rocker switch, rather than an advanced, multitasking, touchscreen device. Where Canola does attempt to really involve the touchscreen, it does so in a manner better suited for capacitive screens, not found on the tablets.
I keep trying to like Canola, but I've yet to find success.
@sjgadsby: In media mode you don't want to switch apps. The hardware button (still like that idea) would transform an ubergeek linux tablet into an dumb media player. Press the button again and it kills the media app and you get back to Maemo. The idea is that sometimes (train, bus, couch) you just want an iPod; ie a Canola interface with big buttons and pretty pictures.
We can imagine some sort of link where Canola (full-screen, media mode) can become something like media player (Maemo interface, both windowed and full screen) when in tablet mode.
There, the hardware button is important because there is no other way to switch to other apps.
@thebrave I'm sure it's a limitation of my own intellect, but I'm not understanding the need for an additional hardware control and a well defined separate role for simple media playback. I can certainly understand using a tablet as a simple music player--I do that myself--but I can't see how an accompanying, pretty, full screen display can't be accomplished by the existing Full-screen key and a media player that follows maemo/hildon design conventions.
I agree that Canola was probably made for something a bit less buttony than the current ITs. That being said, I could stand for fewer butttons on them (or at least placed with more finger friendliness).
Canola's interface is suitable for what it does, but it would need considerable work before it can be made into an entire OS shell. Ironically though, Canola is similar to Ubuntu Mobile's look, which does seem to address those things. If the next steps in making the IT a more consumer device is to go to this UI, they could choose much worse (or keep it as is which is worse yet).
I think Canola's interface is good for what is made Canola, as media center.
But I don't want to use all the functions of the tablet with an interface like that, it would be like a small hell.
I prefer more the Hildon interface, though more finger friendly and more consistency among different apps wouldn't be bad at all.
@sjgadsby: I think the "no button" is something like an ideal. Misinformed people says that the iPhone succeed in having one HW button, but the phone has 4 of them... and without buttons, it will be inpractical as a phone or even as a media players. You want to change volume, skip tracks or stop the device. And yes, buttons could help the developpement of games.
Since I also own an iPhone, I can say that these new touch screens are awesome, someone shipping a resistive touch screen on something else than a low end device could be making a mistake.
@arjw@yerga: Same thing as me. Maemo isn't too shabby as a tablet OS, but a "media mode" could help the product.
I have shown the tablet to my sister, what she thought of it was "It plays MP3, a super screen for watching videos and you say I could use it to write notes in the train with that keyboard"
@thebrave My statement that I might lean toward less buttons on the tablets had nothing to do with the iPhone. It had only to do with the fact that I, personally, rarely use any buttons on my tablet beyond the power button and the D-pad.
Really though, I'm not seriously suggesting that Nokia should reduce the number of buttons on the tablets. I'd actually be opposed to that. I think the designers of the tablets hit upon a good balance with the 770 and have done well to maintain it with subsequent tablets. My usage pattern lies near one end of the spectrum, and the game emulation crowd that wants dual D-pads, scroll wheels, shoulder buttons, a dozen more programmable buttons, and a pony lies on the other. Nokia would lose more by going after either extreme then they'd gain.
14 comments so far
Has someone from Nokia said something to indicate maemo would head in Canola's direction? I've only seen users talk that way. The Qt-on-maemo news items that have come out recently certainly seem to express commitment to GTK+ and evolving the existing interface design. One of the items even seemed to make reference to Canola as a separate, non-standard UI.
1 year, 7 months ago by sjgadsby
I think manufacturers want to define more clearly their products. Back in the days our tablets were the only affordable ultra portable linux "computer" or something like that. Bigger than a phone, smaller than those nice Vaios. Now, at chrismas 08, our segment will be very loaded with dozen of devices, and more importantly: splitted. Ultra portables computers, powered by linux, with the laptop-style keyboard will be availlable in 7"-12" screen sizes for about the same price of an N810. I think tablets are bound to have an "faster to use" interface with big buttons and enhanced media capabilities, to be like "bigger iPods".
1 year, 7 months ago by thebrave
@sjgadsby No, no one from Nokia has, but when you have ThoughtFix and stuff like the Internet Tablet School pushing for that kind of interface and no one against it on Planet Maemo, Nokia then thinks it knows what the customers want.... so don't be surprised to see your tablet start thinking you can't be trusted with menus.
1 year, 7 months ago by zerojay
Hey, Nokia follows all those blogs and many more sources. Plus there are Nokia designers and UI engineers with opinions, there are user studies, competitors analysis and whatnot.
It's ok to get frustrated about things you see, but as a friend I recommend you not to get frustrated about things you haven't seen nor heard from the source you are worried about. ;)
1 year, 7 months ago by qgil
@qgil Did you receive my e-mail regarding my N810 developer discount code?
1 year, 7 months ago by zerojay
Yes, there is a big leap from Canola guys doing nice work and appreciating that work to actually even considering about "moving the tablet interface to resemble Canola".
1 year, 7 months ago by rrainist
And I think that having the best of both worlds is possible: if you could somewhat link an hardware key to a "start media player" action or an "switch mode" to make the use of the tablet as an media player even more easy.
1 year, 7 months ago by thebrave
@thebrave I don't like the idea of adding more hardware buttons to the tablets. I've read many posts on ITT expressing wishes for dual D-pads, scroll wheels, and additional dedicated or programmable buttons, but I'm unconvinced of the need. If anything, I lean toward reducing the number of hardware buttons, but I don't expect that view is shared by many who use, or create, the tablets.
As for a general use/media player "mode switch", that's the most fundamental problem I have with Canola. The unadvertised "-n" switch aside, it takes over the entire display, making it cumbersome to switch applications and access the status bar controls. It even places one of its primary on-screen controls directly in the notification area for new mail and instant messages, seemingly implying those other, lesser things should have been disabled beforehand. The entire Canola UI seems more designed for a single-tasking device with two hardware buttons and a rocker switch, rather than an advanced, multitasking, touchscreen device. Where Canola does attempt to really involve the touchscreen, it does so in a manner better suited for capacitive screens, not found on the tablets.
I keep trying to like Canola, but I've yet to find success.
1 year, 7 months ago by sjgadsby
@sjgadsby: In media mode you don't want to switch apps. The hardware button (still like that idea) would transform an ubergeek linux tablet into an dumb media player. Press the button again and it kills the media app and you get back to Maemo. The idea is that sometimes (train, bus, couch) you just want an iPod; ie a Canola interface with big buttons and pretty pictures. We can imagine some sort of link where Canola (full-screen, media mode) can become something like media player (Maemo interface, both windowed and full screen) when in tablet mode. There, the hardware button is important because there is no other way to switch to other apps.
1 year, 7 months ago by thebrave
@thebrave I'm sure it's a limitation of my own intellect, but I'm not understanding the need for an additional hardware control and a well defined separate role for simple media playback. I can certainly understand using a tablet as a simple music player--I do that myself--but I can't see how an accompanying, pretty, full screen display can't be accomplished by the existing Full-screen key and a media player that follows maemo/hildon design conventions.
1 year, 7 months ago by sjgadsby
Oooh, nice discussion.
I agree that Canola was probably made for something a bit less buttony than the current ITs. That being said, I could stand for fewer butttons on them (or at least placed with more finger friendliness).
Canola's interface is suitable for what it does, but it would need considerable work before it can be made into an entire OS shell. Ironically though, Canola is similar to Ubuntu Mobile's look, which does seem to address those things. If the next steps in making the IT a more consumer device is to go to this UI, they could choose much worse (or keep it as is which is worse yet).
1 year, 7 months ago by arjw
I think Canola's interface is good for what is made Canola, as media center. But I don't want to use all the functions of the tablet with an interface like that, it would be like a small hell. I prefer more the Hildon interface, though more finger friendly and more consistency among different apps wouldn't be bad at all.
1 year, 7 months ago by yerga
@sjgadsby: I think the "no button" is something like an ideal. Misinformed people says that the iPhone succeed in having one HW button, but the phone has 4 of them... and without buttons, it will be inpractical as a phone or even as a media players. You want to change volume, skip tracks or stop the device. And yes, buttons could help the developpement of games. Since I also own an iPhone, I can say that these new touch screens are awesome, someone shipping a resistive touch screen on something else than a low end device could be making a mistake.
@arjw @yerga: Same thing as me. Maemo isn't too shabby as a tablet OS, but a "media mode" could help the product.
I have shown the tablet to my sister, what she thought of it was "It plays MP3, a super screen for watching videos and you say I could use it to write notes in the train with that keyboard"
1 year, 7 months ago by thebrave
@thebrave My statement that I might lean toward less buttons on the tablets had nothing to do with the iPhone. It had only to do with the fact that I, personally, rarely use any buttons on my tablet beyond the power button and the D-pad.
Really though, I'm not seriously suggesting that Nokia should reduce the number of buttons on the tablets. I'd actually be opposed to that. I think the designers of the tablets hit upon a good balance with the 770 and have done well to maintain it with subsequent tablets. My usage pattern lies near one end of the spectrum, and the game emulation crowd that wants dual D-pads, scroll wheels, shoulder buttons, a dozen more programmable buttons, and a pony lies on the other. Nokia would lose more by going after either extreme then they'd gain.
1 year, 7 months ago by sjgadsby